Startups Anonymous Est. 2013 · Read-only archive
Questions

How to get around not knowing how to code?

I am new to the (tech) startup world. However, I have a lot of great skills: Legal, management, sales, finance, and even a great network. So my idea is a big hairy beast dealing with healthcare tech and data management. Yet, I cannot code a lick. I have yet to find a partner who can code AND is willing to be ass in chair, skin in the game, coding. I hear lots of people without coding experience run into this. Should I just role up my sleeves and learn to code? Or should I prostrate myself to a coder somewhere and spread my cheeks for him/her?

Also, I have some early adopters who claim they are willing to use the product from the onset.

24 answers from the community

AAnonymous· Feb 11, 2015

Same problem here. Specifically, I don't know how much coding will even be needed in the first place with my concept... same situation again with the hairy beast (hopefully a different one!), but I told myself that I need to source smart and keep costs low.

AAnonymous· Feb 11, 2015

I find there are a lot of dangers to outsourcing all of the development of the thing/product that will be your core competencies/bread and butter/revenue maker.

As for your idea, you should find out and know for sure what needs coding, how much needs coding, and why it needs coding. Its rather vital. In my instance I know if I don't have a coder or know how to code myself then I am stuck like chuck.

AAnonymous· Feb 11, 2015

As an engineer who has built 2 software companies as CTO/founder, and helped a few other startups build their first revs - some suggestions....

Don't just "ask a coder". My experience with many programmers is estimates are far from accurate. Usually it's a combination of moving specs, the the complexity of building software [no malice intent in that statement], and/or inexperience. Ask a very seasoned tech lead to really give you a reasonable estimate - and it might be close.
You don't necessarily need to have a technology co-founder to get started. You can get one with a bit more traction.
Data, or large data software companies are more complex and costly than a regular 'software startup' - since first you need to build software, collect the data, and analyze the data. Which can be time intensive, and capital intensive. A current client I'm helping as freelance spent $300k on a Rev1, and $5M on Rev2 (with some headcount). They're expensive.
Build your first 1 and 1.5 revisions as lean as possible - you will find out in year 2 that the software is shoe-horned into a newer role it wan't originally set to fill (the nature of startups) - and will build from a foundation of 20-40% of original.

Just my opinons....

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

Not clear what you meant at the end about the foundation of 20-40% of original. You're saying that not even half the foundation usually survives refactoring?

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

I mean that the "code level" product often changes - for a variety of reasons: shifting business focus on the value you want to provide [market/need/vertical] or due to scale of use. Most initial products are a shot in the dark at "being right" - and like startups, usually are "somewhere in the ballpark - but not nearly close enough". Scale often causes the engineering team to break v1 apart and/or support it while building a version which is more nible, and has "rules learned from the market".

AAnonymous· Feb 11, 2015

I have the same problem (a lack of coding skill), and the concern that coders will run away with my baby for my lack of knowledge.

I have decided to attempt a blind method -- no outsource will know the entire scope, just their part. This model means I need to think through the functions of the final app in all its parts. This echoes the preious poster: "to know what needs coding and why."

My first outsource will be a theorist -- someone who understands what code goes where, if such-and-such is the desired outcome. The theorist informs my outline and defines how the code is notated for any that follow.

Standards for code notation will allow all newcomers to shorten the time needed to familiarize themselves with the existing code.

My outline informs the parts, based on the initial theory. Each part is coded by a different coder. All coders are expected to notate to the aforementioned standard.

This method may be more expensive, affecting the break-even. On the upside, I can fund the parts separately, as I can afford to.

I consider these extraordinary costs as the offset to the time spent learning to code, then the additional time spent to become proficient in bug-fixing due to green skills. I am free to work on marketing challenges.

#

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

You can't do that. It's a guarantee of failure. You imagine it can work in theory because you never coded a real product. There are two ways to code a software: either you have a single talented coder who can manage the whole product, either you have a team made of people working together, who trust each other, communicate well and are confident in their mission.

It is really hard to build an efficient team. If some teammates dislike others, or do not communicate enough, or do not trust their management, don't feel involved in the project, it fails. You want to create an army of lonely bots executing your orders, each of them knowing you don't trust them, they will have no freedom in their work, no creativity, low wages, and no visible goal because the whole project is a secret you own. The best coders can only produce garbage in those conditions. And only the worst coders can accept to work in those conditions.

Don't start this. You can pour your money in a river, you will have the same actual result.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

+1000

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

I will add something to my message, just in case you could think you are smart enough to be the first one to succeed in managing an army of coding bots which do not have the product vision.

As a business guy, you certainly know well how a company works. Take this as an exercise. Imagine how you would organise a company org chart, procedures and policies to make it work if no one knows the final product and your market strategy. You will talk to the CFO only about money. You will ask HR folks to hire people without telling them what they will make. Sales reps won't know much about the product (maybe you will give them a photo and a price list?). And your marketing team will not be able to talk to anybody in the company, except you. How can it work ?

There is a solution to this problem: as a CEO, you can do all the job by yourself, and all people around you are totally useless. Their wages are money through the window.

You can manage a coding team this way and have a product, if and only if you create the product yourself, alone, and all other "coders" do absolutely nothing valuable.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

That is the most hare brained idea I've heard in years.

Good company leaders get hip to how things get done (tech, sales, marketing, bd, hr, finance). They don't come up with complex obfuscation schemes divorced from reality instead of learning.

You have already failed.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

You're squirreling your work waaaaayyyy too much.

This "theorist" you speak of is called an Architect. Are you familiar with what an Architect does with construction projects? They usually participate a lot further than by simply drafting blueprints.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

Unlike construction projects, software Architects are often master bs-ers, who do little other than lean back in their chairs in meetings and wave their hands... but that's a rant for another day.

AAnonymous· Feb 14, 2015

Haha is this a joke?

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

The language you use ("ass in chair coding" and "spread my cheeks") indicates you're probably a douchebag who has no understanding of or respect for what that work actually is. This means no engineer worth a damn will want to associate with you. You might get a 25-y-o Rails or Node "craftsman" or "code artisan" zombie who cares more about their text editor than about application security, reliability and performance. Which is good, because the fewer of those morons are on the market, the better off we are.

Educate yourself. Talk to good engineers and you may learn the best work doesn't come from ass in seat coding. This isn't entry level call center or inside sales crap.

Your whole post is as dumb as someone describing running a business as "ass in seat making PowerPoint decks."

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

I am in a similar position. While I read the "spread cheeks" as extremely crude, I don't believe they were referring to an experienced real engineer or developer. There's several in disguise running around burning bridges.

Ass in seat means you get the job done and thrive off working on it until you deliver. You'd rather stay up doing sprints than work 5 hours and snack half the day.

Spread cheeks means you won't take advantage and exploit weakness of the business founder and assume they have no value or credibility so you steal the idea for yourself. (Some of these threads definitely have statements from tech peeps who openly admit to doing and wanting to do that).

Business people have a different frankness, but none of it means they don't know or respect the value of a good engineer. (I hope).

So to put it nicely for you (while I can't speak for them, only me) -

This person wants a tech co-founder that can manage and lead the tech team, seeks to solve problems while presenting solutions on how things can be done rather than just present why things can't be done, listens and achieves business objectives set by the CEO, wants to do the job, will complete the job, is present in the job and not spending all their time talking to people about other projects that have nothing to do with the current project, understands that the business comes first, doesn't undermine the team captain (CEO) in front of others, and wants and shares their own vision for growing the project but does not let that stop them from doing what needs to be done to achieve the next milestone.

In essence, a good person that is a team player that wants and will to do what their best at all times. If they see a need to build a team, they will build a team. If they can get to the first milestone without a team, they will. It's that simple.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

My god, you are dangerously ignorant of what you're doing.

You wouldn't be "Just" learning to code. You are seriously underestimating the depth and breadth of technical expertise that is required to turn a vision into a product -- especially in HEALTHCARE. Regulations add layers of complexity to any product development, especially in healthcare.

You can solo climb mount everest on your own without oxygen , but it doesn't mean you should. On the other hand, if that seems like your only viable option then welcome to the club! "Just" make it happen.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

Leverage your great network to find people who have experience working in software in the area you're focusing on.

Talk to those people to see if they, or someone they would recommend, might be interested in a startup.

Find one or more advisers who can help you in the vetting process.

Understand that in all fields of expertise - there is simply adequate vs. being expert. A coder can be adequate on the business side, but is rarely expert. An expert on the business side is equally rarely an expert coder.

I also notice you make no mention whatsoever of product management or marketing. This is a serious hole.

These roles are important because someone has to convert your strategic vision and the software architect's lines of code into what the product actually will be. This means removing stupid crap that you think you need, but don't really as well as keeping the development team focused.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

You "sound" like you are not ready for this. And I agree with the above comment, would be more entertaining to watch you dump money into the river. Trust Miyagi Sensei on this one; I once instructed Daniel San to do this, and he thankfully got the point before he wasted any further precious time or car-washing money. (Long story, you don't need the details.) Your other off-base comments aren't even worth responding to, so I'll just karate chop right over those and try to be objective and helpful: Maybe you can start with a smaller problem, with abundant social proof behind it that you worked diligently to uncover, for something that's much more feasible to solve?

Before you tame a tiger, understand the cat.

-Mr. Miyagi

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

I'm a software engineer and I'm not offended by the "*ss in chair" comment, that's how most coding gets done. However, there's much more to building software than just sitting and coding.

My advice is to find a professional software engineer local to you, someone who's already working a full time job but who is willing to sit down with you over a series of lunches and discuss what you want to create. Don't worry about them stealing your idea, they already have a full time job, and they don't want a second one.

Someone who's already working in the profession will be able to give you a realistic estimate of time, complexity and baseline cost. Once you've established a relationship, they may believe in your idea enough to want to be involved or they may know someone who would like to partner with you.

Good Luck!! I hope you succeed.

AAnonymous· Feb 12, 2015

Hello. I am the original poster. Didn't mean to offend coders. A previous poster got what I meant, "ass in chair" simply means they see the vision and are willing to sweat "ass in chair" with me. "Spread cheeks" refers to those who take advantage of others who do not have their skills. I was not really worried about anyone stealing my idea simply because most people don't like big hairy problems. And if they do they usually have ideas of their own they are chasing.

However, I see a trend on this thread that leans heavily towards my networking until I meet the right fit.......which is good because even if I put in 4 hours a day in learning code it would probably take me a solid 1.5-2 years to become a 1/10 of a decent coder.

Thanks for all the response. If you've more wisdom for me feel free to add it as I check this site daily.

AAnonymous· Feb 18, 2015

The first step is to quit calling them "coders."

If you were to hire someone to be your second in command, to do much of your job. Would you be looking for "a dude who calls people on the phone"?

AAnonymous· Feb 13, 2015

You may or may not be good at coding, not everyone is so learning is a high risk choice. Very few people are good at code and good at business. There are some, like there are some who are good at graphic design and good at code, but it doesn't sound like you can afford those people - they are very expensive.

In fact it doesn't sound like you have any actual money. The last time someone said "skin in the game" to me at the end of their pitch deck thingy was when they wanted me to donate my time as an investment in their idea. I said no.

Get some money and build a prototype with a freelance dev who will cost you more than you want to pay and then go away to code on something else. You have proof of concept to go and pitch for some actual proper money with which you can hire a space, buy some desks and pay some salaries.

Until then it's all just more BS from another wise guy who works in marketing or has just finished a business degree.

Tech resource is just like any other. If you were setting up a gardening business would you expect to approach a bunch of gardeners and get them to work for free for a stake in the thing? Nope. You would make a business plan and get a loan. If your big fat hairy (scary) idea is so good you can raise the cash and if you can't you won't.

Good coders get approached all the time with this sort of nonsense.

AAnonymous· Feb 15, 2015

Create a basic version in zoho creator or knack hq - drag and drop app building tools

AAnonymous· Feb 17, 2015

As an ex-health care tech consultant (for a big4), I'd say maybe looking at poaching some of the guys there? They hire a lot of compsci guys and try to turn them into business analysts. So they'll have the prod mgmt / requirements knowledge and most are itching to build something with impact. (they should have architecture + coding abilities)

And if you're lucky, you might find someone (technical) who would already have the industry domain expertise, which means they will get the big picture quickly.

A simple search on LinkedIn should yield some fruit. Just look for 'health care practice'.

Good luck!